Feminist Post election throw down.
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19 comments
November 9, 2016 at 11:48 pm
Godless Cranium
I actually liked the part about the SJW’s. It’s funny that the person writing that blog doesn’t see how they’re part of that group. They talk down to those ‘creating safe spaces’ and so forth (rightfully so) but then whine and moan about misogyny being the only reason an imbecile like Trump is the President of the USA. They even go so far as to try and shame the fairly large portion of women who voted for him.
I guess they hated themselves and all those men who voted for Trump just hate women. There couldn’t possibly be other reasons for them to vote that way.
No. That person along with the rest of the SJW’s who constantly try to shame people instead of having a conversation are precisely why Trump is President. They’re part of the problem and many of them haven’t seemed to learn a thing. They’ll just keep whining and pointing the finger at other people, when they should be pointing that finger at themselves.
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November 10, 2016 at 12:56 am
roughseasinthemed
That is a brilliant piece.
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November 10, 2016 at 9:26 am
Bernie Orbust
“Since you’re Putin fans, here’s a Lenin term with which you should be familiar: “useful idiot.” That’s what your president-elect is to Putin – a useful idiot, unwittingly a Russian agent.”
This guy is a useful idiot for establishment looting, corruption and capture of democratic government. Or probably more likely part of the corruption.
Hillary used this Ruskie plot BS to attempt to deflect the CONTENT of the hacked Podesta emails. Or in order words, she was willing to bring back the Cold War with Russia and specter of nuclear Armageddon to deflect a political scandal and present herself an Iron Lady to target the neocon vote after crapping all over the Bernie Sanders progressive wing of the party (half the party.)
Podesta, BTW, is an super-corporate-lobbyist/organized criminal. He’s the guy who manages the web of pay-for-play between various industries and Democratic party insiders: private prison industry, healthcare insurance industry, military industrial complex, payday loan sharking, Big Oil, Big Pharma, you name some filthy thing, they are leeching money from it.
Hillary Clinton is a monster. I was peripherally rooting for her back in 2008. But a lot has happened since then. Most notably an explosion of information available over the internet. (Unless you’re an idiot, you will know how to do objective research, verify facts and know when principles of journalism are being violated, especially in the meme-propagating agenda-driven establishment media that pulled out all the stops to put their insider in the White House.)
She has been involved in terrible things for various forms of kickbacks, from being showered with millions of dollars for giving speeches, to huge donations to the Clinton Foundation.
Back in 1994, Hillary, as First Lady, became the spokesperson for the private prison industry that was spreading money around to politicians who adopted the “three strikes law” that doles out life sentences to petty criminals for minor offenses. Suffice it to say they had an incentive to fill their prison sweatshops with slave labor while getting $120k a year in taxpayer money a pop.
“They are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids [racist Republicans] call ‘super predators’. No conscience. No empathy. We can talk about how they ended up that way [to assuage White liberal guilt], but first they must be brought to heel.”
Or in other words, Hillary was calling for police crack down on inner-cities. The po-lice shook down African Americans on the streets minding their own business. Find some drugs, that’s one strike. Three strikes and a Black man finds himself back in pre-Lincoln America.
Although the Clintons were not the only corrupt politicians in on the action, they were the big players. They created: a) the era of mass incarceration; b) a militant police force filled with racist thugs and cowards; c) the Black Lives Matters movement.
And this is just the beginning of 25 years of Clinton corruption that netted them over $100-million in ill-gotten wealth. (Again, they are not the only ones; but they invented the process of taking promissory bribes paid post-public-service in speaking fees.)
The Clintons would go on to throw single moms on welfare and their kids into the streets and deregulate Wall Street providing the foundation for the 2000s Financial Bust Out. And this was just while Bill was in office. It gets worse.
Notice now the establishment media is BEGGING Trump not to order a special independent prosecutor to properly investigate Hillary’s illegal email server she had set up to do payola side biz for donations to the CF. (She deleted 33,000 emails AFTER an FBI subpoena; smashed her old smartphones with a hammer; may have been selling access to classified docs that ended up on her non-secured private-domain “Clintone.com” server.) They know this could unravel the entire web of corruption the Clintons brought to American politics over the past 25 years.
Long story short, a victory for Trump is ironically a victory for progressives. This is because the goal of the progressive movement is to restore the Progressive New Deal Era that began with FDR and was ended by Reagan.
Hillary opposed a return to the New Deal. Would’ve divided the Democratic party. Now the party will be united against Trump. All the bribe-takers who bungled the election handing a super-majority to a buffoon like Trump will be under attack from New Deal reformers who will expose and purge all the bribe-taking corruption that has captured the party.
It will probably be led by Elizabeth Warren. She would make an ideal FDR of our times. She would bring meaning to the concept of first woman president and actually transform the world like FDR who created modern living stands (with centrist Keynesian mixed-market economics.)
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November 10, 2016 at 10:31 am
The Arbourist
@GC
The majority of white women voted for Trump. His misogyny has been demonstrated during the lead up to the big vote – one would think that a certain amount of recrimination might be in order.
GC, is this where you’re saying – ‘look here’ this is the prime example of how patriarchy just isn’t a thing? The entire ascension of Trump is a sterling example of how patriarchy (white privilege, racism, sexism, et cetera) is working in our society.
Of course there are, we are discussing a cohort of millions of people. The other reasons though, do no invalidate the idea that US society, like Canadian society is patriarchal (or Capitalist White Supremacist Hetro-Patriarchy if you recall bell hooks) in nature.
I’d like you to review your posts on patriarchy and feminism and see what happens when members of the subordinate classes (and those that argue their points) engage in conversation.
Consider the notion sexism and how affects the various classes in society differently and consider that one class benefits from it while the other does not (see also: racism,privilege) and often in discussions the minority part if not marginalized, is outright dismissed as a non-feature of society.
When other people are engaging in activities/practices that are hurting you, and they won’t acknowledge it/actively dismiss it then making noise about it, pointing fingers, organizing to change said practices is what needs to be done.
I would hypothesize that most feminists did not vote for Trump. Consider though the stigma that goes part in parcel with being labelled as feminist – and women, already under siege in this patriarchy of ours, might just not want to make their existence any harder by upsetting the forces of the status quo.
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November 10, 2016 at 10:51 am
Godless Cranium
“I’d like you to review your posts on patriarchy and feminism and see what happens when members of the subordinate classes (and those that argue their points) engage in conversation.”
They get treated with politeness? In fact, the only one that got called names in those posts was me. The only one who was told their sexual assault was ‘less than’ because I was a man, was me.
“I would hypothesize that most feminists did not vote for Trump. Consider though the stigma that goes part in parcel with being labelled as feminist”
Probably because women aren’t buying what you’re selling. They see behind the curtain. They may want equality, but they realize that feminism isn’t the best vehicle for making that happen because a good number of feminists are sexists themselves.
I’m not going to bother with the rest because I know how entrenched in your ideology you are. I did enjoy the read though. Have a great day!
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November 10, 2016 at 11:43 am
The Arbourist
@GC
Precisely my point. The forum you hosted on those posts is an outlier.
The exception, and most definitely not the rule. Hey, if you think feminism is a crock – awesome – but in many places the chance to even discuss the issues is off the table.
I’m not ‘selling’ anything persay. Offering critique of the structures of society isn’t exactly a ‘hard-sell’ of a position.
I would have to disagree on that point, as feminism is specifically geared to liberate women from the patriarchal structures of society – like the features that are responsible for the systemic equality we see today.
Make a reasoned argument that would change my mind. :)
And to you. :)
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November 10, 2016 at 11:48 am
Godless Cranium
“The exception, and most definitely not the rule. Hey, if you think feminism is a crock – awesome – but in many places the chance to even discuss the issues is off the table. ”
There’s something we can definitely agree on. I think discussion is the cornerstone of democracy and no topic should be off the table.
” Offering critique of the structures of society isn’t exactly a ‘hard-sell’ of a position. ”
Yet it is judging by the number of women who voted for Trump in this election and the number of women who (or people in general) who self identify as feminists.
It’s not the critique of power structures. It’s that they think your (not necessarily you specifically) critique is wrong and often sexist.
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November 10, 2016 at 12:18 pm
The Arbourist
@GC
I wasn’t concise enough. In the frame you are looking at, absolutely it is a hard-sell. I was thinking in terms, of pushing an ideology persay. One can’t really sell rad-fem ideology – it is a rather a gradual awakening from much of what the neo-liberal feminism considers to be valuable.
There are many hard corners and unpleasant realities that come with the style of radical feminist analysis.
A good example of the frisson between liberal and radical feminists can be seen over at Megan Murphy’s The Feminist Current”
The comment section (I’d sort chronologically) on the particular article on Pole Dancing shows many of the difference between the neo-liberal choice feminism and radical feminism.
I would think it would be instructive to appreciate the differences between the two.
They most certainly have right to disagree, but disagreement doesn’t change the facts of the matter.
Positing that male violence is problem for our society *isn’t* sexist. It is a material feature of our society and can be shown to be true by a variety of statistics.
Does it negate the fact that women are violent toward men? No. Does it make me a man hater? No.
Like a medical triage – you deal with the most serious problems first; and the chosen example – male violence – is the top of that list. At least from the radical feminist perspective.
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November 10, 2016 at 12:26 pm
Bernie Orbust
Hillary would’ve done as much for women as Obama did for African Americans: less than nothing. Just another empty token accomplishment.
Trump offers better: someone who will fire up feminists to organize against him. Feminists will be a part of building the Movement over the next 4 years and the rebuilding of the Democratic party. They will have the ideal platform to get their message out to the people.
If you’re a feminist or any other kind of activist this is what you’ve been waiting for your entire life. This new millennium movement will eclipse the movements of the 1960s and 1930s because everyone is connected across the interactive social media. THE TIME IS NOW.
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November 10, 2016 at 12:51 pm
The Arbourist
@Bernie Orbust
There is a time to organize and fight, there is also a time to recognize and feel angry about the clock about to be turned back on so many important issues. :/
You mean like Occupy?
Social media and connectivity is nice and all -but this is a bigger problem and will require organizing, community action, and solidarity.
We’ve been atomized by our neo-liberal society for decades, that sort of choosy-choice, F-you I’ve got mine mentality doesn’t go away over night.
I admire your spirit and optimism, but the fight you’re talking about will have to be paid in blood and tears.
And for that, I find no reason to be the least bit sanguine. :/
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November 10, 2016 at 1:23 pm
Godless Cranium
As an aside, I’ve been hoping you’d talk about your thoughts on Jordan B Peterson, the Canadian professor who is waging a battle against politically correct speech, specifically the new gender pronouns.
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November 11, 2016 at 6:38 am
Vesuvius R. Kaine
I didn’t expect Trump to win, and in many ways I didn’t want Trump to win. I was hoping for a Rubio vs. Sanders, myself, and later I was hoping it would be a Pence/Rubio ticket after pg. Believe it or not I was also very much hoping that Warren would have ran, too. Perhaps she will in four years.
Anyways, Bernie vs. Donald would have meant two candidates who I truly believe can’t be bought (by lobbyists), whereas all Hillary has ever proven of herself over 30 years is that she will sell out her country to the highest bidder. I don’t think anyone can truly say that we’ll get that with Trump. This could mean that for the first time in a long time, the people will have a louder voice than the lobbyists. (“Could”…)
I could very well be wrong as I was about this election, but now that Trump’s been elected (still surprised) I’m going to make some new predictions:
1) He’s going to make more legitimate effort to help the black/minority community than any of the past three Presidents (combined?)
2) He’s going to walk back his anti-illegal immigration rhetoric concerning those “in the shadows” (he already started to in his pledge) and will FINALLY start deporting illegal criminals
3) He’s going to aggressively go after government waste
4) He’s going to push hard for rebuilding infrastructure (hopefully creating jobs)
5) He’s going to find a way to a) repatriate money stashed by US countries abroad, and b) punish companies for outsourcing (hopefully creating jobs).
Keep in mind you have an egomaniac who’s now going to want to be popular with everybody – not just Republicans – and he’s proven it. His ego was never big enough for just the Republican base. He’s has no desire of being a career politician and he’s also a Republican willing to push back against other Republicans. He’s proven both those things, too. When’s the last time you saw that in a President?
For him to truly “win” and win “huuuuuuge”, his behavior’s going have to shape up and in the meantime you have a guy who doesn’t give two shits about lobbyists – if he doesn’t in fact despise them. Lobbyists for years have been the biggest instrument of the elite and status quo, and here you have a guy who barely listens to his OWN advisors, let alone somebody else’s.
Seriously, though – look at Trump’s pledge and how much of it is anti-career politician and anti-lobbyist. It was largely unwarranted, and immediately his own party is pushing back on it, but he pledged it anyway. I know he still has to get through the career politicians in the House and Senate, but that’s bold and ballsy and that’s what we need from D’s or R’s. Plus, if lobbyists truly have become far less powerful under this Presidency, then I think we’re going to see more ACTUAL change*** in the next four years than we’ve seen in awhile. Here’s to hoping.
Lastly, I think it will also bring about a better Bernie in four years, or Warren, or someone else to take their place. For better or worse Trump has shown that the Oval Office is far more attainable for those without corporate interests backing them, and if a Ben Carson can run then certainly an Alicia Garza can, too. The idealist and optimist in me hopes that this will up the game on both sides of the aisle in terms of “of the people, by the people, and for the people” as Trump goes for his second term and if took a Donald Trump to race us to the bottom so we could finally rebuild, then so be it.
So while he was far from my first choice, at this moment in time I’ll remain hopeful. He gave a classy acceptance speech, and Hillary and Obama both responded with the same or greater class. I’m hoping that civility and traits of true leadership continues, and we see a new public figure in Trump leading up to January and beyond who is truly ready to serve.
Oh, and to any Hillary supporters out there… hahahahahahaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA x infinity!!!!! Nice one, LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!! Your “hero” and “champion”, i.e. the one who was the personification of absolutely everything DESPICABLE about politics, is OUTTA HERE!!! GONE! Tony Doneza! Bye Bye!! WOOOHOOO!!!!!! (Although, what we got was everything despicable about men, but still. As far as politicians go she was the worst of the worst, and she can take her open-jaw Batman’s joker-like focus-group-approved smile and all her fake accents with her, too. Good riddance.)
(*** Environment? Abortion? Cringing at the thought of what we might end up with under a Trump presidency re: those two topics.)
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November 11, 2016 at 10:55 am
The Arbourist
@Vern
You, me and the rest of the civilized world.
The structure that is in place right now seems to discourage people with decent political convictions from running. The DNC’s treatment of Sanders leaves much to be desired when it comes to candidates who actually want to represent what was the base of the Democratic party in the US.
He will only be as good as who he surrounds himself with. He is not a politician and is ignorant of many facets of what politics is about and how to conduct affairs in the political realm. Trump also doesn’t strike me much as a man of writing and reading – it could mean that he will be relying on others to interpret the information and facts on issues – their biases will become his, with potential snowball effects because of his abusive/abrasive character.
He needs people that will stand up to his bombast and deliver their opinion especially because of his lack of experience. I hope he can keep his personality in check and listen to the experience others and their points of view.
He may be forced too. #BLM is going to grow in strength and numbers as the societal ‘white-lash’ Trump inspired continues to grow. Right now in the US, the racial undercurrents are frothing to the surface. Shit that we haven’t seen since the 50’s is back and festering.
Fuck Occupy and their bullshit – You want to see what civil unrest is, keep making it okay for society to marginalize the black people epitomized by the police force continuing to kill black people. They will organize, they will resist, they will fight back.
Hopefully Trump will hear and accept their demands peacefully, or they will burn what they built to ground. As it was in the 60’s, the choice will have to be made.
His base will not be happy until the groups he decided to scapegoat are appropriately punished (in their eyes). How he salves the alt-right and their xenophobia will most certainly be a challenge for him.
Which is usually republican code for cutting benefits to the poor – if Trump deviates from this, it would be a welcome surprise.
Government make work projects are somewhat of an anathema to his party. He will have a fight on his hands as it smacks of ‘socialism’.
I sincerely doubt that. It would be against his class interest to do so. His empire is a corporate entity that, like other successful corporate entities, rely on a forgiving/passive government presence in the world of commerce. Too much money rides on things remaining the same.
I think he will try to go full trump on his allies and will quickly learn the boundaries of his office. Congress, in theory, still answers to their constituents and won’t go willing along on Trump ventures that go against the wishes of the voters.
He will need people to advise him. He can’t ‘you’re fired’ his way through being the head of state of the most powerful nation on earth. It is now we’ll see how badly the system of checks and balances in the American system have been eroded. The case will be strong after Trump to walk back the power of the president, if wasn’t already strong after Bush and Obama.
The one feature that has remained constant in Trump’s rise to power has been his malleability in terms of what he states, believes, and promises.
I would like to think that he will knock back the power of ‘the game’ in DC, but given that his position is ‘whatever suits him at the moment’ we may very well see business as usual from this President – because riding nativist fasle-populist anger to the WhiteHouse was useful for getting elected. He may discard that notion once in power, because other priorities take precedence. Cutting taxes and prioritizing the wealthy elites for instance.
The DNC needs to be burnt to the ground. They just had their Enronesque ‘smartest people in the room’ moment. They need to go away, and more importantly get out way of candidates that will actually court the affections of the traditional democratic base – blue collar workers and the lower middle class – and legislate policy that actually supports them, as opposed to the slow economic strangulation imposed by the free-investor agreements by Bill Clinton in the 90’s.
Or he will pave the way for an actual politician that will take racism, sexism, and xenophobia to a new level and will redefine the US in a way that will be… less than optimal for its citizenry and the rest of the world.
*looks at your next paragraph* – hopefully some of that class trickles down too…
Massive steps backward looks like the call at the moment, not to mention secular education. Hope more cities are ready to start enjoying the Flint Michegan effect, or the neat trick where you can light your water on fire from all the fracking going on…
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November 11, 2016 at 2:01 pm
roughseasinthemed
@VRK
Gee. Thanks for dismissing nearly 50% of the population to a bracketed last thought. Because, WDM (Women Don’t Matter).
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November 11, 2016 at 3:24 pm
Meg
@roughseasinthemed Agreed. His cackling at Hillary supporters illustrates how so many men were secretly rooting for Trump all along. They don’t care who gets deported. They don’t care how many families are torn a part. They don’t care how many refugees die. They don’t care about the rape epidemic. They don’t care if women die by the thousands from back alley abortions or are wrongfully imprisoned for having miscarriages. They don’t actually care about equality, climate change, or any of the other stuff they claim to care about.
Women are a footnote. We are nothing to them. They use us as housekeepers, sexbots, and a second income then throw us away when they’re done. We might as well not exist to them. They rape us, they punch us, they tell us we can’t speak up for our own rights because there’s more important problems in the world. Their sexism just voted in the next dictator and here they are, and here they are celebrating about it.
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November 11, 2016 at 3:42 pm
roughseasinthemed
@Meg
I think it’s very important to note that white men are all saying ‘it will be all right’. Well no, it won’t for any woman, person with a disability, on low/no income, homosexual, black, hispanic, latino, etc.
But VRK did put blacks up there. Just that women got pushed to the bracketed heap at the bottom. Nothing new there?
The cackling? I really shake my head.
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November 12, 2016 at 9:32 am
Vesuvius R. Kaine
Wow, Arb – I should take breaks more often because I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said. (Granted, I may have a bit more optimism to go with all of it but it’s such a nice warm fuzzy feeling when we agree. :))
If Trump takes the true businessperson/negotiation approach I believe he’ll look for trade-offs, and hopefully the good kind. I don’t think you’ll see more Flint’s as a result of his Admin. I think he’ll look to plays which are good for the right and the left because winning over the right won’t be good enough anymore. To me that means removing bloat and waste while clamping down on shit like Flint. He’s going to want to look like a hero to the people, not to big business because for one his ego demands it and for another he’s against big business – keep in mind that they laugh at him.
Plus, more specific enforcement of environment laws, tax laws, immigration laws, etc. doesn’t necessarily mean that departments have to expand or be given more regulations. The unnecessarily restrictive ones or wasteful ones can be removed as part of making a system more efficient and effective. Tighter rules against tax cheats, for instance, doesn’t necessarily stifle small business. Knowing the difference is the difference between a politician and a decent businessperson.
Re: what you said about the right possibly seeing and blocking moves that appear socialist, here I think Trump can find middle-ground as well. You already had Speaker Ryan looking for it in some ways which was pissing off the far right. You also have the right now fearing Trump’s base – one which they realized only too late was actually both powerful and necessary. Plus, I know you want think that his base is all a bunch of racists and haters (granted, that’s where the R&H go), but that’s not true overall. Even Michael Moore called it out.
Re: repatriation. No easy task, but here’s where I think the unpredictability of Trump helps. Trump’s a multi-millionaire, but he’s not a multi-national (golf courses in this case don’t count). I don’t think he could ever run a multinational and he’s largely mocked by companies who are. It would be wrong to include him in the class of business or corporate elite. Instead, I think you may find the stubbornness of Bernie here, and also much more transparency than Obama here as well which make for an interesting mix. I think Trump will throw it out to the people and let popular opinion decide. Remember that the ruling political class has had much to gain over the decades by keeping their discussions and secret deals with big companies in the shadows (Hillary’s $250k paid speeches to Wall Street, anyone?) Trump, on the other hand, loves to call everyone and everything out to look like a hero to the people.
And look at how quickly he named off and shamed all the companies by name who are outsourcing. Carrier, Ford, etc.. Obama, on the other hand would only renounce the behavior – not really the company. Case in point – he appoints Jeffrey Immelt to his “Presidential Jobs Council” all the while Immelt was outsourcing his own jobs to China.
Last but not least is the Patriot card. Trump’s going to play it heavy, and these companies know he’ll expose them if they piss him off. Think the response to Chick-Fil-A by the right but on a national scale, not just a regional one. Nobody’s truly played the Patriot card for a long time and people are itching for it. These companies will worry because they know Trump is not a career politician, but he is a negotiator. It’s different going up against a guy like that vs. a politician who eventually wants a seat on your board or a cozy lobby position after he leaves office (which btw Trump is attacking the practice of as well.)
Re: #BLM, as with natives here in Canada, they need to get more connection to their own community first. Again, I’ll tell you that their approaches won’t work and I’ll predict yet another piss-poor four years for #BLM thanks to the thuggery they continue to turn a blind eye to. You say “Hopefully Trump will hear and accept their demands peacefully, or they will burn what they built to ground.” You’re not speaking figuratively, so let’s face fact here. What exactly are they burning to the ground? Their own f##king stores and buildings. #BLM is still letting all the thugs come out and burn their OWN SHIT down like f##cking morons without taking a hard, true, leadership stance against it. There’s a difference between calling for peace and actually going even against some of your own community to achieve it, and #BLM hasn’t taken that step yet. They won’t cull the bad element out of their own community. You need to call the thugs out, mock them and shame them. Look what happens now with secret societies on campus, or the KKK. They’re made fun of.
As for all the white-lashing, “the Patriarchy in action”, and all that kind of bullshit that you and the rest of the left is using to explain these election results away, do you realize that you keep promoting the very reasons why you lose? I’ll say this and then drop it until the end of the year: your side lost for one reason and one reason only: your side couldn’t, and didn’t, show up (again). Period. With that truth, none of the rest matters to explain this election.
Oh, right….. “It takes time”. “We’re working hard…” “Look at the massive forces that we’re up against.” Blah blah blah. Battle cries, excuses, and mantras of losers in the Loser Playbook 101. Trump blew all of those excuses away and your side still doesn’t seem to get it.
The election’s over and your side is already finding other people to blame it on. “Those”, “Them”, the “Labels” – the Whites, The Patriarchs, The Misogynsts, The Capitalists, The Racists, blah blah blah. All of which, btw, your side could have handily beaten if it had simply showed up. Looks pretty pathetic from our side.
Notice how “Tea Party” hardly came up in this election? Notice how it wasn’t necessary to “define” Trump with a label for him to win, or the fact that they couldn’t with anything that truly stuck to where it made a difference? Yet you all stay so hung up on your label-making, and your necessity for everyone and everything to have one. Your side is still screaming for some sort of individual or collective identity which by any sort of success characteristics is 100% the wrong way to go about it – unless you want an excuse of which your side has plenty.
I don’t think this is fully you, but as far as your side is concerned until it ditches the 150 or so labels they love to apply to themselves (and others) to segregate and divide even your own even more, your problems will continue.
Last thing about Trump. I’ve never met him, but I work a lot with men and women like him and when that kind of psyche starts having grandkids, something changes in them. They captured this a bit in the second Wall Street movie.
I think Trump’s sense of family is going to influence the Presidential choices that he makes, but that’s enormous speculation on my part. Just putting it on the record for now, however, in case I’m right. :)
Almost forgot: your comment “… hopefully some of that class trickles down, too…” Haha! I’m sure you’re not holding your breath on that one, Arb, but I’ll promise all warm fuzzies between now and Jan 1st. :)
Actually, with your comment in mind how about I resubmit an old challenge? How about we trade books to read in this downtime? One from your “side”, one from my side and we look to find common ground between the two perspectives, or at least greater respect for them? Open to that if you are.
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November 12, 2016 at 11:08 am
The Arbourist
@GC
Looking into it, there is quite a bit to digest.
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November 19, 2016 at 7:55 am
The Arbourist
@Vern
Certainly.
Vietnam War? – My book would be Nick Turse’s “Kill Anything That Moves”.
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