How can you be moral with god? The real question should be, how can you be moral with god.
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January 24, 2013 at 11:03 am
syrbal
I’ve long asked that question. Because all religious morality clauses seem to devolve to a kind of determinism that eliminates any possibility of moral choice. After all, if we merely “are” as created and are flawed in some fashion, all obedience is either out of fear…thus not real choice to be “good” (and yet still not “saved” according to some (dim)lights of the religious crowd) or we merely ARE and if everything is pre-destined, there IS no choice, no morality and all is a foregone conclusion.
It makes no sense and chases its tail. That “God” they rave about writes a pretty lousy Morality Play…
January 25, 2013 at 9:12 am
The Arbourist
@syrbal
But… but… I love baby jebus and he lubs me!!!! To heck with you and all your finely crafted arguments! I’m definitely feeling persecuted (by reality) as a majority here and I don’t like it!
Great comment Syrbal, I am in accordance with the views you express. It is heartening to know that others share similar opinions about the toxicity of religion and its ill effects on people and society.
January 25, 2013 at 12:43 pm
syrbal
I sometimes despair that the very thing too many people count on for comfort/saving in this world is the thing rendering existence so hellish for so many.
My personal rules about religious experience are as follows:
1. If it makes you afraid, it is poison.
2. If it does not bring you joy, it is poison.
3. If it brings you guilt rather than empowerment, it is poison.
4. If it creates hate rather than love, it is poison.
5. If it is exclusionary rather than inclusionary, it is poison.
Those are MY religious tests.
January 26, 2013 at 8:02 am
The Arbourist
@syrbal
Those are an admirable set of tests, and would set a standard that might allow religion to help, rather than hinder humanity’s progress.
I share your despair when it comes to people turning to the standard religions for comfort. Praying gets you nothing but sore knees. Community organizing, talking with your neighbours, becoming politically and socially aware – now those are qualities that will change the world.
January 26, 2013 at 1:06 pm
syrbal
Pretty much my attitude about praying; enough about being supplicants….be ACTIVE. After all, most people (if honest) dislike people who beg for something rather than working for it, so why if religious sorts like to insist that we are made in the image of our deity, would a god feel any difficult about hordes of mental children whining at his presumed kneecaps?