The manosphere welcomes you and your sparkling brethren.
The red pen of justice is vibrating in anticipation of this particular post. Admittedly, when going into the “Manosphere” it makes it shamefully easy to brandish the RPJ. I again make mention of the insipid nature of the WordPress reader function because it takes me to some really horrible sites on the internet, usually engaging cringe reaction followed by my SIWOTI reaction and then usually, hilarity ensues.
(update October 2014 – This douche weasel deleted his blog, so I linked to what was captured in the Internet Way Back Machine instead.)
The hilarity this week will be a natty new site called The New Patriarchy – A Gender Manifesto for the Next Generation. (Pro-Tip: If you don’t want your MRA bullshite deconstructed and laid bare to the world don’t use the feminism tag in your post) The title of the blog should have been enough. Red flags! Warning! Warning! Inversion of reality alert! Raise Shields! You know, all that jazz.
*sigh* – I could not resist and was drawn into the swirling vortex of pants-on-head stupid… Oh well, I tried keeping it over there, but the conversation quickly drew to close.
Battered with inconvenient facts, you know like women are people, the Patriarchy is actually a bad thing, egalitarianism is not the devil et cetera – Transcendiaryknight flames out and flounces in his own comment section.
Awesome.
I’m going to repost his last comment on the thread, annotated with the RPJ, of course. But here, gentle reader, is where I ask you to join me in the fun and find your own red pen of justice and post your own response to Mr.DairyKnight and his noble launch into the “manosphere“. Post your work in the comment section or link to this post with your replies.
Okay, lets get busy! Mr. DairyKnight front and centre please… [TW for Strong Language]
“I don’t have time to go through all the points in your response,[Oh! All those contrary facts! They highlight how shallow and crappy my arguments are. These criticisms are harshing my delusional-MRA mellow!] but I have dealt with people like you [You mean people who call you on your shitty arguments and thinly disguised misogyny?] before and its not worth the time[because my precious man fee-fees trump reality dontcha-know, and arguing against strawfeminsim is soooo much easier]. You will continue to reject everything I say[because it so amazingly wrong, as in fractally wrong.] because you feel insulted[projection much?] because my beliefs and experience[like your beliefs and experiences give you the right to say horribly stupid shite and expect not to get called on it? I guess the Manosphere provides training wheels for hard things like arguing cogently.] do not match closely with yours[Indeed, I think women should be treated as autonomous human beings that deserve full rights in society]. I am not interested in arguing [oh that was abundantly clear early on]with arrogance[someone who took your bad arguments and showed you how bad they actually are].
Just because you can provide internet links to someone who may have the same opinion as you as “evidence”, does not make you right either[ no, there is no default I win button for linking to sites, but, linking to sites that provide evidence and definitions that support my arguments is how adults argue, cupcake].
My main concern with feminism[as defined by cupcake] is that a growing percentage of sex-starved[oh wow, you went there – so thats what you launch into the “manosphere” is all about; women not being fuck-toilets for your manly seed] beta males[which is code for “I’m a lecherous creeper”] (sex-starved due to women’s abundant sexual choice[certainly not because you’re insinuating that women should be your fuck-toilets] are starting to drop out of society[Really? Taking your balls and going home?] like flies (witness the economy crashing around you[that would be due to the increasingly corporate nature of governance – but hey I could be wrong]) and focussing on ‘hunting’ women for sex[Oh so rather than getting jobs sex starved beta males are setting up the Creepy McPerv-Stalking Society, so they can get all rapey-sexy on the evil women that have emasculated them? What an shining example of pro-social behaviour.] rather than trying to ‘buy’ a woman with his ability to earn[WTF? How about treating women like human beings and appealing to them with your good qualities. Of course then you’d have to admit they deserve rights and equality, we certainly can’t have uppity fucktoilets around now can we?] – why else would should[ed. “she”] be with him [Wow its almost like you know what all women want, it totally isn’t like you set up an imaginary straw-woman and argue your woman-hating points against it] when there are an endless supply of stronger alpha males[because human society is completely like a wolf-pack, btw that alpha/beta wolfpack shite is out of date, and is not how wolf society works, but misrepresenting science is the least of your concerns, trust me cupcake.] who she can fuck[What is with all the fucking? Why do you reduce women to fuckable objects, unless of course that is what you think they are only good for…] on demand?
Men have found another way of getting laid and it doesn’t involve working long hours just to have some bitch use [It’s nice when MRA’s finally dispense with any sort of subtly and let their irrational hatred stand in the spotlight] and manipulate you[oh you mean being a respectable, ethical, hard-working human being is just right out! ]! This mass exodus of men from the workforce obviously[only to you and the rest of the “manosphere”] has some pretty big implications[more creepy stalkers, wheeeee!] for society and needs to be considered[yes, this argument is considered to be bunk].
As for your comment about my arguments being at odds with reality[the evidence presented would back this particular claim], I suppose that depends on what your perspective of reality looks like[Yeah, empirical reality – facts matter cupcake and you don’t get to play all po-mo relativistic dude] and I’m sure its vastly different from mine[oh you did go all po-mo, full marks for fuckwittery].
Ps. for your own sake and mine, please don’t waste your time replying[Absolutely! Now I will dedicate my time to showing how atrocious you are at arguing and how shitty your arguments actually are here on my blog] as I’m done with this argument[that is because outside of the “manosphere” your arguments are considered by rational people to be baseless, unsupportable shite, that can be boiled down to your hatred of women and the ways that ‘evil women’ ruin your life]. Go and prove your ‘evidence based’ theories to someone else [Okay, that is exactly what I am doing here Cupcake. Welcome to the internet…oh..and of course the “Manosphere!“].”
Ah, another RPJ post in the books. I always feel better after the final edit is done :) Oh, and don’t forget to write your own RPJ – riff off of the above or go to the fiery nexus of fail in person and glean some of your own MRA “wisdom” to dismember(there is a second post just as ripe as the Launch, trust me) and deride.
bleatmop
Mystro
The Arbourist
Dead Wild Roses 
9 comments
September 3, 2012 at 3:26 pm
wildfeministappears
Hey, I’m in a conversation with a MRA as we speak! I couldn’t believe he actually used stereotypical responses. It made me slightly giddy. I know I wasn’t going to change his opinion or anything, but it felt nice to talk about what I know and challenge him in the process.
Anyway, his last post told me how 60% of rape accusations in the army were fake, to grow up, stop wanting everything, and to stop taking the rights of men. Sir, I am too tired from working to get women’s rights to take yours!
LikeLiked by 1 person
September 3, 2012 at 4:49 pm
The Arbourist
I’m pretty sure you meant to say dispenseth the dudely wisdom. :>
The bad thing is that to explain how wrong he is, one must build our argument from the ground up. Building from the ground up always involves challenging certain societal truisms that are just wrong and make our task that much more difficult.
In your MRA case, explaining rape culture and the severe under-reporting of rape. Where does one start…*sigh*.
Sheesh, it is tiresome explaining how social justice/feminism works to dudes.
Thanks for stopping by WFA, and keep up the good fight :)
LikeLike
September 4, 2012 at 10:27 pm
The Intransigent One
Here’s what I commented at his new post… let’s see if it makes it through moderation… (updated to fix the broken hyperlink)
—–
So if I’ve understood you correctly, your thesis in this piece is (1) that because of feminism it is harder for men to find (sufficiently attractive and servile) female mates than it was in some storied past; and (2) that men who can’t find sufficiently attractive and servile female mates are launching a rebellion that will destroy feminism?
I will grant you point #1, though with some reservations. Back when marriages were negotiated between families, rather than individuals, and women weren’t allowed to say no to their families’ choice, some men might have found it easier to find a mate, but I suspect, just as women today tend to reject feckless douchebags, families back then wouldn’t have wanted feckless douchebags for sons in law. Then again, as long as women didn’t have legitimate ways of earning money, given the choice between marriage to a feckless douchebag, and prostitution or destitution, we would have gone with the feckless douchebag. And then, once married, we were financially dependent and probably responsible for children too, so continued marriage to a feckless douchebag (or worse) was often still a better choice than the aforementioned destitution or prostitution.
These days, thanks to feminism, women can have jobs, and our paychecks can get deposited into our own bank accounts, and we can even own real estate! Now we can choose between marriage to a feckless douchebag, or spinsterhood with a houseful of cats. With such magnificent specimens of manhood as you out there, is it any surprise many of us are choosing the cats? And then, if we get married, and the awesome guy we had so much in common with and he was our best friend and we were going to be a team, him and me, and take on life’s challenges together whatever comes, if he suddenly turns into a feckless douchebag after we say “I do”, guess what, we can leave! Support ourselves and make a new life without some douche-albatross tied around our necks.
I guess where we disagree on point #1 is, you seem to think this is a bad thing.
I confess I’m drawing a blank on point #2. Heterosexual women are going to continue fucking/dating/marrying/reproducing with heterosexual men. We are going to continue to avoid, as much as possible, doing so with feckless douchebags. While this does reduce the dating pool, there are still plenty of genuinely good, interesting, kind, egalitarian (if that’s your thing) men our there, and we’ll be getting with them as much as possible. They seem not to object to the female attention!
I’m not sure exactly what kind of rebellion MGOTW have planned that is supposed to have feminists quaking in our boots, but I assure you if it involves continuing to go your own way, and leaving the rest of us the fuck alone, we think it’s an absolutely brilliant plan and you should get on with it ASAP.
LikeLike
December 15, 2012 at 7:28 am
A Reasonable Man
I’m an intelligent guy and I’m interested in understanding the perspective of both sides.
I can see that some of the points the MRAs make are valid. For example, after reviewing the evidence I don’t believe the claims that the majority (even a significant minority) of of the pay gap is due to discrimination. I’m not here to discuss this, however.
What I do want to understand is ‘rape culture’. What is rape culture? How might I avoid contributing to it?
LikeLike
December 15, 2012 at 8:23 am
The Arbourist
@ARM
You believe whatever you’d like about the disparity in pay between men and women. If you think it doesn’t exist, then put simply, you are mistaken.
No harm in being wrong.
You said the above, but then said this earlier:
If, being reasonably intelligent as you claim , why would you not put the term “rape culture” into google and press enter?
As linked in my sidebar I would suggest going to finally feminism 101 to get a basic grasp on terminology and basic theories of feminist thought. They also have a good breakdown of what rape culture is.
LikeLike
December 19, 2012 at 1:53 pm
A Reasonable Man
Sorry it took so long to reply, I expected to get an email after a response, but didn’t.
“You believe whatever you’d like about the disparity in pay between men and women. If you think it doesn’t exist, then put simply, you are mistaken.
No harm in being wrong.”
That sounds like a positive claim which would require evidence.
Let me lay my cards on the table. I see horrible misogyny in some MRA circles, and rape-deniers in many more. I see people ignoring evidence on the MRM side, but many feminists also do this.
“If, being reasonably intelligent as you claim , why would you not put the term “rape culture” into google and press enter?”
I think I understand the condescending tone, but I don’t like it. Of course I already did this. There are as many definitions of rape culture as feminists, apparently. Sometimes it’s easier to understand a point of view by interacting with someone.
I’ve reviewed your link and, you’ll be unhappy to know, there are a couple of scenarios where I may contribute to rape culture.
I would educate a son that ‘no means no’, I would equally educate a daughter to learn to stay safe. Is that really a bad thing?
I would want an evidence-based approach to reducing rape. If evidence comfirmed that rape was reduced by taking a tiered approach to sentencing, with gang rape, violent sexual attacks or rape using drugs at the most serious level, and other rape, ‘grey rape’ in the link – perhaps where consent was withdrawn, at a lower level, then I would support a separate definition.
A purely hypothetical distinction in the absence of evidence, of course!
I’m not sure that the concept of ‘rape culture’ is very useful. Rape is a big problem though, and maybe it doesn’t matter that I don’t like the ‘rape culture’ statement of the problem, as long as people are working towards some sort of solution.
Changing the subject a little, in a different reply you mentioned “certain societal truisms that are just wrong”, please would you give me a couple of examples?
LikeLike
January 5, 2013 at 5:45 am
Diana
You make contribute to rape culture just by believing the ones who get raped are usually at fault by dressing attractively and taking too many risks.That is the case in some rapes but usually they choose vulnerable women who aren’t necessarily attractive-therefore she is less believed about her rape, don’t have many friends whom may show her support or has and has some problems like drinking too much, doesn’t have a good social situation or has a mental disability therefore her believability is very low.That’s why you don’t really need to teach your daughter to need to stay safe other than not go drinking alone and tell her friends to not let her leave with anyone.Usually women get raped by someone they know but nobody believed him capable of such things or by double bad luck- landing in a place where nobody can help her with a person who doesn’t have good intentions.
LikeLike
January 11, 2014 at 6:29 pm
Bastet
Hi. I’ve arrived a little late to this conversation but would love to participate.
I view the term ‘rape culture’ as a way to describe cultural normatives both explicit and implicit that either encourage rape, deny it’s a huge problem or enable rape to occur under a guise of justification and negation. Let me give examples to further clarify.
Cultural normatives that encourage rape include but are not limited to;
# assertions that a girl/woman by virtue of a single situation in her history must want it. Eg. ‘Dirty slut can’t keep her legs closed’
# claims that a style of dress is sexual thus the girl/woman must want sex Eg. “Skanky ho wants some”.
Cultural normatives that deny its a huge problem include but are not limited to;
# asserting that any and all rape claims not tried in a court of law a false allegations
# media articles focusing on the ‘poor boys promising future now being destroyed by the rape allegation”
Cultural normatives that enable rape to occur under a guise of justification and negation include but are not limited to;
# The choice to remain neutral when a rape allegation has been made between two mutual friends. Silence is never neutral, it always falls on the side of the aggressor by enabling them to get away with it.
# Rape jokes that leave audience members who have been raped in a position of feeling isolated, possibly having flashbacks, unable to leave without drawing obvious attention to themselves, shamed and having to either ‘cover’ with an awkward smile or out oneself publicly.
# Responses to a rape victim who stands up a against rape jokes. Eg. ‘Get a sense of humour.’ ‘It’s cutting edge humour, breaking with political correctness. You’re not meant to take it seriously. Give a guy a break’. Or in other words, I expect you to develop a thicker skin about the most horrific experience of your life while being so thin skinned myself I cannot even take justly deserved criticism or take responsibility for my words.
I hope this helps you better understand the term, ‘rape culture’.
LikeLike
January 12, 2014 at 7:59 am
The Arbourist
@Bastet
Thanks for taking the time to comment and leave your insights here.
Seconded only by phrases that start with, “I’m not a sexist/racist but…
Good definition. I think that one of the reasons that it seems hard to define the term rape culture is the resistance of the dominant cultural paradigm to analysis. If the status quo remains formless and undefined it cannot be changed and that, of course is a benefit to those who benefit under the system.
LikeLike