We still have far to go as civilization, when half the population is subject to shite like this.
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August 24, 2012 at 6:25 am
witchylisa
I like you :)
August 24, 2012 at 9:49 am
The Arbourist
Well, thank you very much. :)
August 24, 2012 at 6:19 pm
Reneta Scian
I didn’t even have to dress like that to get responses like that. It’d be nice to walk down the street without being harassed.
August 25, 2012 at 8:22 am
The Arbourist
@Reneta
It should be the base expectation of any civilized society, women’s bodies are not public property.
It is funnysad how dudes regularly get this concept wrong and seem to think that it is the responsibility of the female to keep them from acting like jackasses.
August 25, 2012 at 10:09 am
Reneta Scian
I tend to go with the “funny” (what the fuck) usage, but yeah it’s all too true. It’s dumb too because our culture even tries to condition, convince and coerce women to “actually enjoy” that sort of attention. But most mature women I know find it offensive and scary, myself included. When men operate on the sexist assumption that women have to “enjoy” being eyeballed, groped, lewdly adored, et cetera it’s problematic to the core. It’s a lose/lose, if you engage them you end up sacrificing your autonomy and being uncomfortable with their misogyny, and if you don’t you are at an even greater risk. Men with creeper entitlement don’t like being ignored.
[edited on your behalf, Arb]
August 25, 2012 at 10:19 am
Reneta Scian
I meant “convince” not “condition” twice.
August 26, 2012 at 5:28 am
slendermeans
Very telling. I have seen this before and I have wondered if there would be a Foucaultian effect here; if men knew they were being watched, would they still harass women in the street. In other words, do they know what they are doing in inherent wrong?
August 26, 2012 at 5:33 am
[video] Two women minding their own business, and street harassment « slendermeans
[...] [HT to deadwildrosess] [...]
August 26, 2012 at 7:49 am
The Arbourist
@slendermeans
I’m guessing the panoptical effects you mention are coloured by the societal expectations and of course the P is interwoven tightly into said societal expectations. I would venture, even if being watched, they would be okay with it because it is the norm.
If their consciousness has been raised and they regarded the women as human beings who bodily autonomy was to be respected in all situations I’m sure the reaction would be different. As is though…dudes be dudein. :/
August 26, 2012 at 12:16 pm
slendermeans
I do wonder. I think you could be right though re. there being very little awareness that what they’re doing is wrong. Sometimes, for all my cynicism and anger and roaring and shouting about the state of the world, I stupidly try to see the best. :/
August 26, 2012 at 12:43 pm
The Arbourist
Quoted For Truth.
I often feel the same way. I think maybe its because we need to have some small hope in order to keep going. Blaming and not adding to problem takes a lot of brain-cycles and effort; it is exhausting.
Speaking of dudes – I’m doing my best to educate one on his blog and so far he has been publishing my comments. I’ve been saving what I write because I know about self-identified liberal dudes banhammer when they get called on their misogyny and privilege.
Why I went and have continued to go there is sorta in the same vein as your comment, I cling to the idea that people can change their ideas or at least contemplate change. I’m hoping his world view has not completely calcified and is still open to reason.
A thoroughly optimistic position (;P), yet somehow necessary.
August 26, 2012 at 1:31 pm
The Arbourist
@slendermeans
I spoke too soon, the dude just flounced on his own thread.
August 26, 2012 at 2:04 pm
Reneta Scian
I think optimistic opposition is a good approach. As for the Foucaultian effect, I am sure that at least “some” of the men are aware that what they are doing is inappropriate. Sexism of this breed and variety is more than just cultural norms, but one of a community of “facilitation”. Some men would see the camera and correct their behavior and act more respectfully. Some men would not, or be aware of the limitations of said camera crew and still behave like the misogynistic men they are. But there is an aspect of this situations that is institutionalized that is enabling to that behavior.
A lot of the laws governing cinematography, and filming in public places have been protected by laws that censor what media and reporting can and can’t film. Between corporate personhood laws, and those laws governing rights to films containing people other than the film crew and potentially a “mic wielding” speaker it makes it difficult to hold people, corporations and institutes responsible for their sexism, sexual harassment, and otherwise and causes those reporting on issues like this to have to go through “extraordinary measures” to protect themselves.
It’s in situations like this that we see the problems that systems that inhibit the press can act to work for the patriarchy, the wealthy elite, et cetera. It is very intersecting. They can “display” this video but must protect the identities of the company and the individuals photographed engaging in said behavior, in a “public” place no less. I understand protections for restaurants, and other private entities as well as for public accommodations. When you make people accountable, and you call out this sort of stuff and permit people the freedom to do just that in whatever means makes that point.
You can make it “publicly” known that such behavior is unacceptable, and hold people accountable. Furthermore, you can put pressure on companies, like the construction company with the construction workers harassing the women to take action against that behavior. The footage also works for personal accountability for the sexism of the men who approached these women, if you put it in “easy to access, centralized locations”. It’s hard to make a difference when the system is literally “designed” to create safe havens for this sort of behavior, while “pretending” to be doing something about it.
Lastly, is it any wonder why “personhood” protections are over corporations that are “Mostly run by men”? Is it any surprise that male dominated fields are laden with unchecked misogyny and sexism in spite requirements that they enforce anti-discrimination policies? Is it really any wonder why this behavior goes unchecked when the entire system is a haven for it? Secrecy and censorship is the enemy of equality.
August 27, 2012 at 10:30 am
slendermeans
I visited his site last night and saw his flounce. It’s rather ironic, really, that he intimates that his site is about engendering dialogue about a “new world order” yet he refuses to engage in that dialogue. What we have here, it seems, is a man who wants to tell women that feminism just does not suit him, and he knows better what we should be thinking, doing, feeling, and arguing.
It’s distressing that he has reduced the world’s problems to women withholding sex. Once again, someone believes that women are nothing more than their vaginas.
August 27, 2012 at 12:07 pm
Reneta Scian
That’s why the privilege that breed entitlement when it comes to the oppression of women is so dangerous. It doesn’t just reduce women to a utility, it reduces them to property. Anytime you essentially view anyone in any attachment to a “slave-like” status it leads to abuse. It’s so much easier for men like him to embrace that entitlement, than challenge the very reality of what damage they do “to women” in the name of that privilege. Assessing your privilege and realizing the role you played in cultural oppression is not a happy feeling, but a necessary one.